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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Norn torture"

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==What Drlupinmario Says==
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==To summurize all of this...==
 
You Shouldent love creatures too much, Or hate them either. Norn torture is OK, but ONLY as long as it is NOT taken too far.
 
You Shouldent love creatures too much, Or hate them either. Norn torture is OK, but ONLY as long as it is NOT taken too far.

Revision as of 00:44, 28 December 2005

Important Questions

Why do they do it?

Some Norn torturers feel that there is too much 'cuteness' in the Creatures Community, and rebel against it, while others like to see what the limit of their Norn's endurance is. They argue that Norns are not alive, merely images on a computer screen, and try to shock people into seeing this for themselves. Of course, a lot of players don't like this . . . -- Lis Morris, Much Ado About Norns 4

The roots of norn torture were most likely sadism, the enjoyment of seeing a cratures in pain. It should be noted that this is not the view proposed by AntiNorn - although the language of his website suggested this, his claim was that he did it to make people think about whether it was wrong or not (and quite possibly to get people he considered as amusing pissed off at him).

Are Norns Alive?

In the second edition of Much Ado About Norns, Creatures players were asked whether or not they considered norns to be alive. According to issue four, many believed so. AntiNorn stated that he did not believe that norns were alive, and therefore his actions had, if anything, only a symbolic meaning. On the other hand, those who do actually enjoy it must logically believe that norns are alive, as otherwise why do it? A non-living thing cannot suffer! It seems reasonable to conclude if there are any "for real" norn-torturers out there, they believe that the creatures they "torture" are alive.

Can Creatures Feel Pain?

It is generally accepted that it is not possible to punish a thing that cannot feel pain; this might of course be linked to the fact that most living animal-shaped things that we care about do feel pain (and this could change should we create androids which we personally value as "alive" but which cannot feel physical pain). Thus, the art of bonsai is not viewed as plant torture but merely as an unusual method of cultivation to achieve a desired effect. If you take the view that creatures are not alive, then they can obviously not feel pain. But if you accept that the are alive, then they quite clearly can feel pain, just as they feel hungry or tired - it is a part of their simulated universe.

Is it Torture, or Testing?

It would be possible to view The Creatures Match as a norn torture site, given the objective (to test one creature against one another - to the death) and the way in which the subject matter is treated:

"What do you think of the place? I didn't design this building with visitors in mind."
"Actually," you wince, "all the dead bodies and killing the winners... I'm a little freaked." You hope he won't overreact.
A stern look comes over his face. "Great, a pro-norner. Next, you're going to develop some speech impediment and attack me and I'll need to call security."
"I have no idea what you're talking about."
"Well..." he hesitates, "some people have moral problems with The Creatures Match. But those moral problems don't conflict with them attacking us in various ways. So, we're on the lookout for terrorists. Not that we're really vulnerable or anything."

Why Pain specifically?

Pain is just a drive like fear, or hunger. Why is it generally Pain people refer to when talking of Norn Torture?


To summurize all of this...

You Shouldent love creatures too much, Or hate them either. Norn torture is OK, but ONLY as long as it is NOT taken too far.