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:Deleted content is not really gone forever.  If you really needed some deleted stuff back all you have to do is ask an administrator and it can be retrieved.  Also, your suggestion that you're apparently using the illusion of some sort of CC RP'ing going on as a trap to lure people in makes me care even less about it, frankly.  I have no problem with people doing RP games, but when you get right down to it it has very little to do with the Creatures games and how they are played.  [[User:ElasticMuffin|ElasticMuffin]] 06:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Deleted content is not really gone forever.  If you really needed some deleted stuff back all you have to do is ask an administrator and it can be retrieved.  Also, your suggestion that you're apparently using the illusion of some sort of CC RP'ing going on as a trap to lure people in makes me care even less about it, frankly.  I have no problem with people doing RP games, but when you get right down to it it has very little to do with the Creatures games and how they are played.  [[User:ElasticMuffin|ElasticMuffin]] 06:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
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::You know, I'm trying to work with you here, and you are making it really really difficult.  Role Playing is a part of the community.  You may not like it, but it has had as big an impact as anything k9norn did, or any other community event through the years.  Now I'm now not saying that it's a part of the games therefore has a place here.  That argument is just stupid.  I'm saying it's a part of the community, and while the majority of it has no place here, there are articles and stories that hold a historical signifigance for a major part of the community.  Just because one admin is searching for any excuse to dump the stuff, doesn't mean that it's not what the community wants. [[User:12.218.71.24|12.218.71.24]] 12:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  
 
Not exactly my two cents but just something I feel needs to be added: As Embri pointed out contrary to popular belief not all RP activities have moved to Blackstar. The RP section on A2K remains one of the most active sections of the forum. A lot of that stuff would have no place on Blackstar's Wiki because it has absolutely nothing to do with Blackstar. Yes there is some cross-over, some people who RP on Blackstar and on CC sites and some of the same characters get used on both but theres also a lot of stuff that is unique to CC sites.
 
Not exactly my two cents but just something I feel needs to be added: As Embri pointed out contrary to popular belief not all RP activities have moved to Blackstar. The RP section on A2K remains one of the most active sections of the forum. A lot of that stuff would have no place on Blackstar's Wiki because it has absolutely nothing to do with Blackstar. Yes there is some cross-over, some people who RP on Blackstar and on CC sites and some of the same characters get used on both but theres also a lot of stuff that is unique to CC sites.

Revision as of 12:01, 7 May 2007

Forums: Index > Creatures Forum (wiki) > Forum:RPG Pages Have Vanished


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I was looking over my Wiki entry (because I'm vain like that) and I realized that my link to PF's RPG profile was red. So, I ran a search for the page to relink it, but could not find it. I tried Danikat's RPG character, too, with similar results.

In fact, I cannot find any RPG mentions on the wiki.

Was the entire category deleted? Was that done on purpose, and if so, why? - Officer 1BDI

I'm not quite sure, you may need to ask ElasticMuffin - Don 20:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I gather that as Blackstar now has its own wiki, ElasticMuffin decided to purge this wiki of RP stuff, which isn't quite right, I think, because RP existed in the CC way before Blackstar. We can always undelete the stuff.-Malkin 21:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I guess this leads us to the question of what counts as Creatures-related stuff. Random RPG characters are generally not very notable to anyone besides the one that wrote the article and anyway tend to become outdated the next day at the latest as the person changes the character or its backstory or its powers or its...ad infinitum. I think that this is not the place for this stuff, because if we started documenting everything people in the CC did, what would be the point of calling it a Creatures Wiki? I think we should limit ourselves to stuff that actually has to do with Creatures, not random RPG things that have very little to do with it at all besides perhaps the characters being "norns", if that much. However, I am not the only person with authority here and can easily be overruled. I just would like a good reason for it to be restored besides "someone in the CC made it," because that could be applied to almost anything. ElasticMuffin 22:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
As an addendum, I suppose that I find it OK to keep RP-related stuff on the person's user page if absolutely necessary. But having separate articles for characters that for the most part are either forgotten the next day or become almost immediately out-of-date is just silly, and the stuff that we do have ought to be well-written and at least somewhat related to Creatures. Most of the existing stuff (much of which has been transfered over to the Blackstar wiki already) did *not* fall into those categories. ElasticMuffin 22:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
One more addendum; I point out the unofficial proposed RP policy, in the discussion section of which MonaLS made what I think is a good point: RP articles are not really worth having as separate articles, and if they must, the characters should at least be notable enough that someone else besides the character's creator thinks it is worth having an article. I note that my decision to remove this stuff is not consistent with my comments there, but the larger percentage of the CC RP types having their own wiki now made it seem like a more reasonable course of action. ElasticMuffin 23:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

After being harangued elsewhere by some other people, I have restored everything. It is as though it never happened. It makes me sad that RP is apparently one of the only things the CC has left. It's up to you guys to deal with it now, though I suspect putting it back is pretty much what everyone but me wanted. Sorry for sounding whiny, but it's the truth. ElasticMuffin 15:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for restoring the articles. I understand why you thought the RP section was no longer necessary, and in some respects, I agree with you, but I was concerned that these pages had been removed without warning (unless I missed the notice, which is entirely possible), which didn't give anyone the opportunity to back them up for use elsewhere. To be honest, I was mainly interested in being able to copy PF's information, and I was having trouble figuring out how to access the deleted article so I could retrieve that info. :p
I don't know how many other people approached you about this, or what they told you, but if you still feel strongly about it, perhaps we should put this up to a vote to see how the CC feels about RP articles on the Wiki? Officer 1BDI 17:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
My personal view is that RP articles are fine as long as they're *part* of the community - last time I looked at Blackstar I couldn't even view the (empty-ish looking) Creatures RP forum(!), and *none* of the RP articles seem to link to examples of community RPing involving the characters in question, something which I think is pretty vital to justify the existance of articles on this wiki. But this boils down to needing to actually finish the RP policy, really, and then some kind of "warning: you need to provide some kind of source for this stuff" before zapping things.
Basically my view boils down to what Muffin said above: articles on the wiki must be Creatures-related stuff, in a more solid sense than "the character is claimed to be a norn, sort of". Obviously if you're writing Creatures fiction using the characters then it's going to be relevant - maybe not always relevant enough to deserve their own article, but I'm sure we can sort that out somehow - we have enough space, so we just need to be careful not to fill up with non-Creatures cruft (although I doubt there's much of a chance of it becoming a big problem given the low activity, so meh). Fuzzie 21:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, to be fair, the PF, Odin and Zan articles link to public forum threads involving them, which is at least something source-wise. Perhaps someone could try doing this for all of them? I'm unconvinced that characters used in single threads are a great idea for putting on the wiki as separate articles (as opposed to going on user pages, which is great), but I'm not really involved enough in the RP stuff to know how important a single thread is :) Fuzzie 21:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I feel we should link to the Blackstar Dojo wiki when we can, as well. That won't neccessarily be all the time, some members of the CC don't belong to the Dojo. To that mind, I've plunked a go at a stolen-from-Wikipedia template in the sandbox. If anyone can fix it good, it might be helpful? -Malkin 22:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the template could do with standing out a bit more: do the Blackstar people have a logo we could use, perhaps? Fuzzie 07:54, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Greetings... I should check the CC Wiki more often. o.o

Malkin drew my attention to this debate, so I'm here to add in my two cents. I doubt that Blackstar's Wiki would be at all adverse to hosting RP profiles, pages, etc, so long as they belong to people who have accounts at the Dojo - thus, rises the problem of what to do with RP characters and related items which are not part of our world. Contrary to popular belief, not every RP'er has moved from the CC to Blackstar.

As for an icon representing Blackstar, I can provide one if needed. My suggestion would be to move all RP articles to one of two locations - Blackstar and/or User pages, and put redirects in the current page locations. Thus, there would be no loss of information, and Wiki integrity would be maintained. That's my two cents, for what they're worth.

Embri 15:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I never suggested that Blackstar hosted all existing CC RP activity. But a certain level of consistency must be maintained- if some RP stuff goes, stuff that falls under the same criteria must go as well. Or vice versa. ElasticMuffin 06:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well considering both my wiki and my past time are both at the heart of this thing, I guess I should speak. First of all, the Creatures section is viewable, if you join the appropriate group. It's my little way of encouraging people to sign up for Blackstar...a tad underhanded, I'll admit, but true. Second, if anyone, and I mean ANYONE should have been given warning, it should have been me. I would have been more than happy to host all this "RP Cruft" as you so call it. You don't want it, fine. I can understand, but one person doesn't make a community.

Now, there are some instances where RP'ing probably should remain in this wiki. Danikat's character is an example. Both she and her character are holdouts from the days before Creature Labs went under. My character, however, is not, and so long as I had a chance to put it on Blackstar's Wiki, I have no problem with you deleting it.

Thanks for letting me have my rant, and I look forward to working with Malkin and Elastic Muffin in the future. -DP

Deleted content is not really gone forever. If you really needed some deleted stuff back all you have to do is ask an administrator and it can be retrieved. Also, your suggestion that you're apparently using the illusion of some sort of CC RP'ing going on as a trap to lure people in makes me care even less about it, frankly. I have no problem with people doing RP games, but when you get right down to it it has very little to do with the Creatures games and how they are played. ElasticMuffin 06:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
You know, I'm trying to work with you here, and you are making it really really difficult. Role Playing is a part of the community. You may not like it, but it has had as big an impact as anything k9norn did, or any other community event through the years. Now I'm now not saying that it's a part of the games therefore has a place here. That argument is just stupid. I'm saying it's a part of the community, and while the majority of it has no place here, there are articles and stories that hold a historical signifigance for a major part of the community. Just because one admin is searching for any excuse to dump the stuff, doesn't mean that it's not what the community wants. 12.218.71.24 12:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly my two cents but just something I feel needs to be added: As Embri pointed out contrary to popular belief not all RP activities have moved to Blackstar. The RP section on A2K remains one of the most active sections of the forum. A lot of that stuff would have no place on Blackstar's Wiki because it has absolutely nothing to do with Blackstar. Yes there is some cross-over, some people who RP on Blackstar and on CC sites and some of the same characters get used on both but theres also a lot of stuff that is unique to CC sites. I agree that character profiles could be added to the users page, but removing everything RP related from this Wiki is going too far. Danikat 19:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of whether the RPing is being done on Blackstar or not, it is still almost completely unrelated to Creatures. Just because the RPing takes place on a forum that also happens to have a section for real creatures stuff does not mean that the RPing is creatures stuff. Fine, if you want to talk a little about your RPing activities on the article about you, then fine, but long separate articles containing descriptions of characters that have nothing remotely to do with Creatures on a Creatures wiki is just absurd. ElasticMuffin 06:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)