I admit, i have punished norns to death (before I found out that I could set the pop limit, mostly) but after-wards I mostly just felt disapointed that they could'nt take more of a beating, and I mostly view them as experiments. I think norn torturers are... odd, and those who baby their norns are... I don't have a word for it, appalling? I think I'd draw the line at enjoying their death, and the other line is never punishing them AT ALL.
My view here
I sort of agree with Blue_eyed_ally_catz, torturing norns is kind of sick, but is it really wrong? But to be honest I can't make my mind up. Creatures are alive in a low sense of the word, like invertabrates are, but is torturing creatures any worse than putting out insecticide, slug pellets and mouse traps down? What about eating meat? Killing animals that are alive in a much higher sense of the word? -and also knowing it's impossible to be 100% sure animal products are ethically sourced all the time? - surely you can only argue for the rights of lower animals if you abide by the rights of higher animals -yes, that means being vegan.
But if it is wrong, were do you draw the line? Is knowingly letting another creature beat another to death wrong, or is it letting natural selection take it's course? Are wolfling runs and feral runs cruel? What about purposely introducing dangers to norns, things that could hurt or even kill them, in order to make them learn to avoid it?
This article is probably really old and I doubt anybody will read this. The Creatures Community has changed a lot in the past couple years... what caused this change, I don't know, but about half the people admit to torturing norns now. I believe that, if it weren't for AntiNorn's bravery, sarcasm and pure genius, that this change would not have taken place, and the CC would be a much more immature place, filled with a lot of nutcases and little kids. But the question, is it real sadism? This is an interesting question I think. As most of you probably know I torture norns, I've been working on the Boneyard, which is, really, just a big torture chamber/graveyard designed with miserable norns in mind... and I'm a bit tired of all this argueing, so I'm just going to get down to the bottom of it and keep somewhat of a neutral side since I don't really care either way... is it real sadism? What are the personalities of people who torture norns? Well, whatever side of the arguement you're on, you're most definately insane or atleast a little eccentric. The people who spend months designing traps and devices just for torturing little cute cartoons, enjoying seeing them die... yeah you're pretty eccentric then. (Like me.) On the other hand, people who think the norns are alive and care more for the norns than they do for the actual people... sending death threats to people who would dare slap those poor little innocent pixels... yeah they are also completely insane. So the point I'm trying to make is... whatever side of the arguement you're on, you're a freak, weirdo, sicko, and psycho. Though it doesn't seem like anybody cares. I think Yoshimasa once said it very well when he said that Creatures seems to attract eccentrics. So we've all agreed I assume now that everybody in the CC has indeed really deposited their sanity in the skull-shaped basket... but is it true sadism? I think it is. I'm not saying anything against norn torture, I think it's great, for whatever reason (we still haven't found the missing excuse yet) you do it, but think of it... I think people either do it because they honestly enjoy watching the stupid overly-cute norns die, and/or because they are amused by the reactions of the people who think the norns are alive and feel sorry for them. Either way, it's sadism, just like a sarcastic comment can be sadistic. So yes, I think that norn torturers should be considered sadistic nutcases, but that's just my opinion. Anyone who likes to watch cute things like norns die obviously is tough enough to not care about being called a sadist. And anybody who admits it is probably proud of it, so yes, I think the norn torturers should be considered sadistic nutcases, but in way, so should the people who sent death threats and hatemail to AntiNorn-they enjoyed causing him emotional pain. So yeah. I have no point, my point is only this: We need serious help... xD Sanity is not an existant/accepted element in the CC (sort of). It should also be noted that anybody who tortures norns and brags about it, like me, for example, is probably doing it to show off and blacklisting them is going to do the opposite of what it was meant to do because they like it that people know about their norn torturing. If you do it because you enjoy watching the norns die, then you are probably really tough and don't care about violence, etc. So again it will be ineffective since if they don't mind a cute little norn dying in front of their eyes they are certainly not going to mind being called mean. And if they do it simply to be different, to stand out from the crowd, then blacklisting them and saying they will never fit in is encouraging them. If they do it because they are amused by the reactions they get, then sending them hatemail was their goal to begin with. Take Ashton Kutcher for example... he has a show called Punk'd where their only goal is to play pranks on celebrities and get them as mad/sad as possible before the gag is over. It is meant to be funny, for what reason I do not know, but for some reason, when you see it, you will most likely laugh, even though the people on there are miserable. Getting angry will only amuse Ashton more when the celebrities are being Punk'd... so it will do no good, only staying calm will take the fun out of the prank. It's the same attitude with many norn-torturers. And another reason people torture norns is because that they are trying to make a point, and shock people out of thinking norns are alive, and get some sense into their head. Which rarely works, but dang it, is it fun to try. So again hatemail, blacklisting, insults, and peer pressure simply won't work, in any of these cases. Norn torturers are like Grendels, in a way, it's like it's programmed into them, their own little personality, and they like to show it off a lot of the time and get it through to people what their opinions are and what they are like. But that's their personality and they (we) are coming from a different viewpoint than most people. I don't care if it's an eccentricity, a personality disorder or what. I just don't care and I think that's the way it is with a lot of us. It's fun. A lot of people ask why. But then, why is it that when something good happens to us, maybe we win a new car or something... and we smile... and we are happy... what causes us to be happy? Think about this for a minute if you don't get it. There is really no logical explanation or reason other than "it just does". Why are movies enjoyable to watch? I don't know. There's no real logical reason when you really, really think about it. Why do some people like to eat soup but others have different tastes and think it's bad tasting? It's just the same thing with torturing norns. "Alternative player" is a good description of a norn torturer, I forget who said that, I heard it on a Gameware forum but it's a very nice sympathetic name for eccentric nutcase, but I don't really care whichever name you use because really I think either is true. I don't know why it's fun to kill norns, it just is. I don't know why seeing people miserable on Punk'd is funny, it wouldn't be so funny if it were real, but for some stupid reason that is yet to be found, it is funny, and we laugh... for no real reason! What's the appeal? I don't know, but it's funny. Again, I have no point, I'm simply observing the whole situation. Not choosing my words very carefully, I'm sure you noticed that when you saw "eccentric nutcase". All of the above reasons for torturing norns I have identified with... just enjoying the idea of being the grendel breed... There are other reasons for torturing norns, of course. Such as: Stress relief. And Experimenting and curiosity. These are two somewhat more reasonable and noble reasons for torturing norns, which is why I generally don't care for them much. Of course I'm curious about norns and of course I experiment a lot, testing stuff out for some agents and stuff, the only problem is is that I'm probably testing stuff out because the agent I'm making is, say, a giant microwave, canning machine, iron maiden or some other sadistic thing to kill norns in the most amusing and miserable deaths a video game has ever seen. So of course torturing norns has it's logical reasons other than just having fun and getting a kick out of it. Though I have never really understood those reasons or why they are funner than just plain beating the crap out of norns. And nor have I understood the pleasure in raising norns, stuffing them up with food, nice and fat... but then letting it all go to waste when they skip the breaded norn recipe and let them die of old age. I never understood the joy or pleasure of that part of the game I don't think and I don't think the people who do understand the pleasure I get out of desiging new and more amusing ways of killing norns. Again, I repeat, I have opinions, yet I have no point, it's a simple observation. I spent hours writing that and I don't think anybody will ever read it... Any comments? EDIT: Oh dang it I forgot to write my username here. Silly me heh. BLUE_EYED_ALLEY_CATZ IS A NORN TORTURER.
- I just think it's pathetic to torture norns. Why? Because they've never done anything to anyone except be "too cute" for some ridiculous people to handle. |: Don't show off that you torture norns because that is also ridiculous. However, if it stops you from torturing real live animals then please do it all you want. It's not cruel because they're not real; I treat my norns like they are experiments, I let them kill themselves if they want to. I don't set things up so that they will get hurt, never have, and likely never will, because I respect them. They may be stupid, get fixated on elevator buttons, seem to purposely locate grendels to get beaten up by, and never do anything sensible, but I respect them because some of them prove to be ferociously intelligent, hardy, and a hell of a lot more entertaining than even humans.
Then of course there are people who say "YEAH BUT YOU KILL GRENDELS THAT MAKES YOU A HORRIBLE PERSON." I don't kill grendels and I don't molly-coddle them. Some of my norns could take a grendel in a fight. That's nothing to do with me. I've currently got a norn in the Jungle terrarium (called Tybalt, rather appropriately I thought) clashing with a grendel. I think he's going to die but he is CERTAINLY not going down without a fight. I find this amusing. That doesn't make me a horrible person, nor a norn or grendel torturer. I'm just playing the game, and you are free to play the game as you wish also.
As they say, what goes on behind closed doors is nobody's business but your own. :)
I,agentrok personally believe it is sick and wrong to torture anthing. Even norns. They may not be real,but its still incredibly cruel,abd overall messed up. But I can understand both sides. I used to torture grendels,but then I just couldnt stand hearing them in pain. So now I tame them. But I respect your opion,however cruel it may be in my eyes. Technically,while norns arent real,they are alive, "how does this makes sense/" you may be thinking,well,technically,due to the fact that they have a working brain and their own genetics,they are alive,just virtual. That is my stance on this dilemma,although I shall never uderstand why people torture norns.-Agentrok
188.8.131.52 11:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I honestly couldn't care less about people who torture Norns. In fact chances are that most of the COBs that people use in the worlds have involved the death of at least one Norn whilst in development. C-Rex 16:17, March 24, 2013 (UTC)